Author Topic: The Compromise of Props  (Read 1056 times)

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Sparx_kitten

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The Compromise of Props
« on: November 25, 2016, 07:28:47 PM »
I suggest we do a cycling of prop and spec dm rotation.

Every X months switch between the two types of spectators games since most people come on the server to play TTT, not dodge the props.


Over the several months to possible years, they have been complaints, complements and raging with prop spectator force.

Some saying it's a good pastime to get back at those who killed you or to enrage alive players with interference. (As you can see, a lot of problems can arise from this issue)
Others see it as a test of skill on their WASD and SPACEBAR aim.

I believe a compromise of the rotation is necessary until we can figure out/code countermeasures for the damage received from props as well as a prop size limit.

Senpai Kaady

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2016, 07:39:40 PM »
Honestly props should not be removed at all. Just because we have a few complains dosent mean we should take Irrational dacisions. weve had prop killing forever. And it even says IN THE RULES PROPS COULD AND WILL KILL YOU So why Go on about this when We warned everyone. It is Something to pass the time. and People enjoy it. People who get chased away by it anyway probably wouldent have stayed long. and we need to advertise if we want more players on too. In finale statement. it shouldent be taken away. its Fun and Alot of people enjoy it.

Wheatley

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2016, 07:42:28 PM »
Honestly props should not be removed at all. Just because we have a few complains dosent mean we should take Irrational dacisions. weve had prop killing forever. And it even says IN THE RULES PROPS COULD AND WILL KILL YOU So why Go on about this when We warned everyone. It is Something to pass the time. and People enjoy it. People who get chased away by it anyway probably wouldent have stayed long. and we need to advertise if we want more players on too. In finale statement. it shouldent be taken away. its Fun and Alot of people enjoy it.
She never said anything about removing props, only switching between Spec DM and Props.

Drooby

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2016, 07:51:39 PM »
The problem I see with cycling through spectator games is that many new players may be upset at the fact that, if they joined the server during a time of deathmatch, and then come back a month later and realize that it's propkilling, they may be upset and never come back. It's a bit difficult to cycle through different modes because people won't be getting what they want either way. I feel like a better idea is to make props more of an annoyance instead of doing damage (just pushing people around).

Sparx_kitten

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2016, 07:54:23 PM »
Then its not really TTT at this point. People come for TTT, half the time PURELY TTT, and then they see the T shop and detective shop. After that they decide on their stay, if they are just getting hurt then its ruins their stay.

And to confirm, it is NOT just a FEW complaints. I have been getting complaints for 2 years since I joined.

Im not asking to get rid of it, Im saying lets cycle through them while me and cry look for a solution since props in the first place should hurt so much.

The MAIN issue is, props ganging up on one person. Fighting back becomes impossible to do. And frankly, thats why I left today because I wanted to play TTT, not cower in a room from a bookcase and 3 chairs.
That time could of went to me ENJOYING a different game.

Sparx_kitten

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2016, 07:55:27 PM »
The prop killing chases people away anyway.

Wee Wee

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2016, 07:58:05 PM »
So I actually love this idea!! However there's a problem.. what makes our server different from Niico's TTT or Serious TTT, or any other TTT server, the props!!! I've spent a lot of time server hopping and just slaughtering everyone I saw, but I stayed on raptor because of that unique feature. If we do this cycle (which I love) we need something that makes people see us and have us stuck out! Or we could advertise with a name change and loading screen change so it says Spectator Prop Killing! Or something of the sort. With that IDK how to vote!

Drumfeathers16

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2016, 07:58:52 PM »
Sparx, Just like everyone who comes on the server, you knew that this server had props. If you didn't want this, you should have just gone to a different server.  What you're saying is like ordering a coke at a restaurant, and then getting coke, and then complaining that you wanted pepsi instead.

Cycling is not the solution to this problem. Neither is getting rid of the props, which is something that makes this server unique. If we add DM, we become like every other server, and why stay just on our server if we're just like every other one?

Sparx_kitten

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2016, 08:00:48 PM »
Okay drum, its decided for me then. Ill just stick with coding and modifying

Wee Wee

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2016, 08:05:25 PM »
WOAH HOLD ON!!!! ITS 6-3!! I think we can work this out!

Drooby

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2016, 08:12:28 PM »
Okay, so I don't like the idea of the cycling mainly because people who were attracted to the server once will not be if they don't like the change x month(s) later.

So once again, here is my solution: Why don't we just make the props do no damage? Even cycling through no-damage props to damaging props? I don't want to get rid of props, but at the same time, I don't think it's logical to be changing our main focus every month or so just to please a certain group of people. If the props didn't do any damage, they would still annoy people, people can practice using WASD and what-not, and then people don't have to worry about getting killed. At that point, they'll be annoying enough to get people out of hiding and start searching for other players, which is what props are mainly used for, if they aren't abused.

So that's my solution, I'd at least like if it was taken into account when making the final decision.

Dralgaboi1339

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2016, 11:16:57 PM »
Sparx, Just like everyone who comes on the server, you knew that this server had props. If you didn't want this, you should have just gone to a different server.  What you're saying is like ordering a coke at a restaurant, and then getting coke, and then complaining that you wanted pepsi instead.

Cycling is not the solution to this problem. Neither is getting rid of the props, which is something that makes this server unique. If we add DM, we become like every other server, and why stay just on our server if we're just like every other one?
Im here as a friendly suggestion, not to be hostile.
While yes, the prop possession is a unique feature, it does drive people away.
In the last year, there have been numerous ways for people to do minigames in gmod, Some being integrated in TTT (such as what i use), all the way to having a gamemode specifically for it.
This should be the focus for it. As well as the gamemode says TTT, and while that is true in most regards, it has a twist that turns it into something different than TTT. The reason it couldnt kick off well, is because those that join to play TTT, want to play TTT (which is 99% of people that join).
When you die by a prop, it severely kills the actual gameplay people are looking for. 
For example. When i started prop hunt, we had a weapon called the wunderwaffe. From Black ops yes. It would throw everything in the room around, and every actual hider wouldnt move. Making it less Prop Hunt, and more See What Doesnt Move. This was fine for a bit, but like Raptor, it peaked and then crashed. I know that every single person that plays, loves to kill people with props, and equally hates it when a prop ruins their T round.

Now i know that im not going to change anything, because it will never happen. But this is just my friendly advice.
GLHF

Cryoraptor

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2016, 01:07:25 PM »
Well the vote contrast shows we have a problem here and I need to do something about it.  I will make several suggestions, they will be more or less effective depending on each individual persons preference.


I can make the prop damage scale close to zero or zero.

Advantages:
The props will do no damage or nearly no damage.
The prop force can be much higher and the props will be more of a push/shove nuisance than a damaging one.
Disadvantages:
They may still push players too much and severely affect gameplay, especially on maps where players can fall.
All prop killing weapons will be virtually useless and require modification or have to go.

Players can vote for a prop free or low prop force round.  Players will have to make a decision on either or first than vote.  This is more work for admins, but not much.  This can be good for maps with deadlier props.  

Mass limits on props.  I should be able to do this.  I would have to have a function that checks the mass before possession and denies it if the mass is too great.

Reduce the prop force  but have a high punch o meter.  This way you are very mobile but can't really muster enough force to one hit or do too much damage.  Another server had this but it was banned to kill people.  If you watched my barrel video on youtube you will get a good example of what to expect.  This becomes more interesting with more players, because players will have to gang up on people to kill them.  It can still be annoying but not as much.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1emq_8Gcpuk

Limit the number of props that can be possessed.
Limit types of props that can be possessed by blacklisting some.

Complicated:
Have no prop possession at all but have a T weapon that makes props possessable.  This way the traitor takes a risk by enabling possession on the prop of his choice because it could turn on him.  They have only themselves to blame for using this weapon and it could come with a shit load of warnings attached to it.  It will have to notify players of an available prop to take control over.  The players that gain the ability to possess a prop will have to compete with other spectators to get the prop.  Anyone who does get the prop will be grateful.  Basically the T will point at a prop he wants to "enchant/empower" and use the weapon on it.  It will take time like a defibrillator.  When done it could make a sound everyone can hear and it will notify spectators where the prop is with an icon.  The traitor could be given a one way voice chat to the spectators.  Prop force could be set high on the server or low and the traitor will have to enhance the prop multiple times to make it deadlier.  We can have so much fun with this if I can find someone willing to help or if I can figure it out.  This will also enable an amazing amount of control over props and make them more of a tool for TTT than a hindrance.  I could eventually find a way give the props other options besides movement like a lack thereof, explode, act as a transport for weapons, C4 or other things. They could freeze into place and block players. Basically a subservient spirit that the traitor could empower.   After all, TTT is a game about trust.  The traitor would have to trust the spirits to be merciful and do their bidding.  ( I really want to try this one )

Have some sort of opt in / opt out vote at the start of every round.  If you opt in you will be able to possess props but also be able to be killed by them.  If you opt out you can't possess or be killed by props.  

Everyone can have a "tag rifle" that sets a player as IT when they are hit by it and not IT when they hit someone with it.  They can be harmed by props when IT only.  The props will have to know who is it.

They're may be a way to prevent props from hurting traitors, since the majority of issues come from props hurting T's.

Somehow I have to invent more ways to deal with props when alive.  Shields, bring the propbuster back, have some sort of nail gun to nail them to walls, have more eraser type weapons.  Perhaps a powerup that will grant permanent prop immunity.  It will change the material of the player to brick or something as a notification.

Whatever we choose, I don't want to cycle the props/sdm.  My goal is to integrate the props into the gamemode and make them fun both to play and fight against.  As you can see there are many choices.  I don't want it to go away.  It just needs to be reworked.  I'm aware that people do leave when the props become too much of a problem.  But some people love them regardless.  I have to find a balance between the two.


Either way I took the time to write

this.  Please read it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 01:20:36 PM by Cryoraptor »

Wee Wee

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2016, 06:20:23 PM »
Cryo, we talked about this and you didn't suggest it, ADVERTISE THE SERVER FROM THE TITLE AS A PROP SERVER! Then ppl that bitch about it you just say "it's in the title, use them to your advantage"

Drooby

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Re: The Compromise of Props
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2016, 08:03:05 PM »
I quite liked your first idea Cryo. It is much like I suggested, and still satisfies people's cravings to become a prop but not effect the game as much as they do now. They'd be an annoyance, but not as much of a threat.

Another suggestion would be to have a voted-on gamemode (almost like you said), but instead of the props doing low damage, they do either the damage they do now or more damage, which then lets people go back to the basics of RAPTOR.